Residents living in the Enfield part of the Bowes & Bounds area have received a leaflet on Monday from Enfield Council about the proposed Bowes Quieter Neighbourhood Scheme. A scan of the leaflet, including a map of the scheme is attached below. 

The Friends of the Green, Bounds Green (FGBG) want to know what you think about the proposed plans. Enfield Council have released a perception survey, but it is the group's understanding that a consultation will be done later on when the trial is up and running. The group thinks that is too late so they want to hear your views now as big changes are coming. The measures are planned to be implemented in August and September.

They would be grateful if you could take part in a short survey; the results of which will be fed back to Enfield and Haringey Councils.

The survey is available on their website: https://fgbg.org.uk/

Please complete it before midnight on 28th July 2020.

 

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There are four road which carry all the traffic that is travelling from East to West in the morning and West to East in the afternoon.  The traffic we are experiencing is not local people moving short distances but others travelling to work.  It starts at 6.0am at the moment and increases till about 8.30 then dies back at 9.) They could be made one way, in which I suspect the traffic might pass through a little quicker but would probably be more dangerous and increase journey time to any local at the wrong end of the system.  But Bounds Green Road is the sticking point at the moment as it is jammed so traffic is slow to get clear Nightingale, Truro and Clarence.  

The problem can really only be solved by TFL.  They need to sort our the North Circ..  Banning the right hand turn from Bounds Green Road onto the North Circ has made matters worse..  Closing Brownlow would be disastrous.

This morning, like other mornings,  cars were static on Nightingale at 8.0 in the morning.  We increasingly get large lorries which should not be travelling along out streets at all and skips which make all the houses shake as they go over the bumps.

We do need an area solution. I suggest we require the BPCA to - at the very least  - contact its members and the wider community to see if there is a consensus view as to a way forward.  I have asked for this but they seem reluctant to do this in which case we need a coming together of all concerned and some sort of solution hammered out.  We will never be traffic free we live in a Capital City where people move about for work and things are particularly bad at the moment as people are reasonably cautious about taking public transport

Removing the right turn from Whittingdon will increase the traffic  on that road and cutting it off will increase the traffic on other roads.  (Clarence, Truro and Nightingale).  Counting it won't make much of a difference we know the problem it is solutions we are short of!  And that is where TFL needs to come in.

What do yoi mean 

Removing the  right turn from whittiington will increase the traffic on that road , do you mean whittington roa

also  are you tactfully conceding that  the effect of removing the right turn on whittington road has ibcreased the traffic on clarence road , truro and nightingale roads. 

 Having  been brave and tactfuly exposed the adverse effects of removing the right turn on whittington road  on Clarence , Truro and Nightingale , you then say counting it wont make any difference?? 

i dont understanf what you mean when you say counting it wont make any difference ,

Whittington appears to have by this very action obtained elite status , before we attack Enfield . lets restore 

parity , and reinstate the right turn at whittington and share the rat run equally .

I am sure Caroline and the  residents  of the top half of whittingtonn will accept that too much of a  good thing for  whittington is  shifting the whittington road problem to the sister roads as you have bravely highlighted

if the right turn is reintroduced and there is a no entry no exit at the palmerston / north circilar junction

this will reduce the traffic coming in and out of the area in the rush hour 

traffic coming from green lanes via the ladder rods melbourne etc cannot enter  whittington if the junction bewteen palmerston and whittington is made no entry 

The no right turn can be  shifted to nightingale , truro and clarence and reopened in  whittington.

It is very difficult  for the whittington road residents to give up what is wrongly perceived to be a traffic calming measure for the whole of bowes park , when  the reader above shows it to be a traffic calming measure 

only for whittington road.,  perhaps it is easier to bash enfield than concern ourselves with the the effects of the no right turn on whittington and the consequent increase in traffic on other roads that you bravely highlighted  

Hi Bernadette, I've been having a similar conversation on Facebook this morning and also with Caroline. I live at the top of Whittington near that junction, although I wasn't around when this restriction was put in. I have been wondering the same thing after hearing about the problems Clarence/Truro/Nightingale are currently having. It doesn't seem equal at all.

I think it's a very interesting idea to close Whittington at the other end and then remove the right hand turn. Cars can still come through from Palmerston via Thorold Road though, and Thorold are already having a lot of issues with cars coming the other way. Only this morning someone came down there at speed and managed to hit three parked cars. 

There was a suggestion somewhere that a filter be put in on Myddleton Road as well, so the only way in and out of Whittington and Marlborough Road was via Whittington onto Bounds Green Road. Similar filters would be added to stop the other roads being rat runs. Residents would also have to go down Bounds Green Road and Green Lanes to access the A406.  I have no idea if this is the sort of thing Haringey are considering as part of their LTN, but I'd be really interested to see the details.

I think if that happened, the right turn from Whittington could be reinstated as the traffic levels would be much lower.

In terms of counting - I wasn't quite sure what Kate was referring to, but we have actually installed a little traffic meter which shows the number of vehicles going past our house on Whittington.  We have data from before the Enfield LTN was implemented so hopefully it should show any trends. I'll find a link to the numbers in case anyone is interested.

Dear liz 

I am delighted  to finally break through on this issue .

it  doesnt cost any thing to reintroduce the right turn at the top of whittington and Enffield transport advised the  making of the no entry no exit at palmerston would fit in with their trffic  claming  plans over a year ago.

The enfield officer also said it was  a brilliant idea but that i would need to canvass and win those residents over who  had campaigned for the closure ,

i am disabled so i cannot canvass for this , but if Carloine  can go into print  and state that she supports us  our suggestions  and agrees that now that  there are more contributors , who want parity for our hitherto forgotten residents in the neighbouring roads, i know haringey will push this through , 

This is the sequence we need to follow to make it succeed   

1  make the bottom of whittington no entry no exit 

2 reintroduce the right turn at whittington road 

3 introduce  no right turns at clarence , and truro   

if we do not follow the sequence 1 then 2 it will not work

  this will  have an adverse effect on whittington but no worse than what clarence , truro and nightingale have had to put up to satisfy th residents of whittington

your other suggestions  are par exellance , so we need do away with the rhetoric and action your suggestions albeit on a trial basis to see the pros and cons.

i do remember you responding  favourably  months ago on this issue 

 There is quite a bit of injustice in bowes park even with planning ,also, some people get turned down because the extension is not in keeping with the victorian architectutre , or that  it needs to remain unconverted and underoccupied  until the owner sells or dies so that the garden can be used by new owners  with children( this may rake another 80 yrats). and some get  pemission for   building monstrosities  overlooking neighbouring gardens  in whittington as they are considred quirky depending on whether the applicant  is an architect or not. .

I am sorry... but there is no way that I would support the removal of the No Right Turn out of Whittington.  Just because Enfield has done something unplanned and stupid does not mean that Haringey should return to a scheme which was both fume filled and dangerous - with drivers grabbing tools to hit each other in the morning traffic jams.

I believe that other people living at this end of Whittington would agree with me.

Haringey now has a very thorough page on their website about this: https://www.haringey.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/travel/transpo...

 

It explains that Haringey is waiting to hear about funding for their Bounds Green LTN and should hear by the end of this month, that they will be doing a full consultation with all residents, and that they plan to implement Phases 1 and 2 at the same time, subject to funding. They do not have any details of their proposals because they are waiting to consult with residents.

 

They also include an email address so you can express your views: transport.planning@haringey.gov.uk

 

The Bounds Green Councillor who attended the Myddleton Road Market stall last month was Dr. James Chiriyankandath. I have been in regular contact with him. He’s very responsive (about this and all matters) and encourages residents to get in touch with him. His email and phone number are on the Haringey website.

 

As you can see from just the comments on this site, let alone all the other social media and other activity, there is no consensus about a way forward. The BPCA will continue to fund any proposals or actions that would help to ensure that residents of Bowes Park (and our neighbours) are fully informed about proposals, give residents a chance to be heard, and aid in making this a democratic process.

 

Collecting factual information about changes to the traffic patterns on your roads (numbers, types of vehicles, photos of problems, etc.) are fully encouraged and if needed we can help to collate all this information and try and ensure that it is provided to – and acknowledged by – the decision makers in this process as a cohesive and impressive collection of information.

 

Feel free to get in touch with me at info@bowespark.org.uk

 

Emma

 if only  dear  haringey  transport had taken a leaf from the neighbouring boroughs book and applied for the grant in march  , our traffic calming suggestions  would at least have been on the drawing board,anyway it  never ceases to amaze one . how  easy it is to just go with the flow and in this case love myself more than my neighbour.

Caroline 

You seem to  be less  concerned that the same rule ie no right into bounds green road has not been introduced  in   Clarence , Truro, Nightingale ,Palmerston .roads.

When  you say fume filled and dangerous , are you implying that the imposition of the no right turn miraculously cleared the air of vehicle fumes in all the adjoining roads, ie clarence , palmerstion . truro  nightingale roads even though , they not only have been deprived of a similar  no right turn priveledge

 they are as a result of this action exposed to greater fumes because those vehicles that cannot do a right turn  from whittington road , have to do a left turn on to  these roads and then do a right to join bounds green.road 

It i not moral to use Enfield  Council as a smokescreen in order to get away with the unfair treatment of the sister roads ??

Do you not believe in the saying whats good for the goose is good for the gander?

Also supposing you decide to  no longer live in Whittington Road , ( We are all unsure of how our futures will pan out with the Pandemic),  are you saying ,that come what may , even if and when you leave the area, , Whittington  Road must always be entitled to this special priveledge  and  the right turn must not be reintroduced in your or your familys lifetime., simply because  you  had provided scientific evidence  that  only the residents and drivers  at the top of  whittington should be protected from fumes  and injury caused by the waving of tools, therefore none of the other roads require any such priviledge.

You never know . haringey may decide to compulsorily purchase a few  whittington road  shops/properties in order to widen the road towards bounds green road , and construct  a mini roudabout..controlled by lights.

There is the   implication  that  blue collar workers  with tools in their vans , were  prone to conveniently threaten one  another  at  the top of whittington road ,when there was a  build of traffic  and  this behaviour  worked in the faviour of the no right turn fans. and it is therefore being implied  that if  those  same drivers used  the adjoining sister roads , they did  not  resort to waving their tools at one  another .in traffic jams, and therefore it was not necessary to grant those residents the same priveledge as the no right turn campaigners of the top of whittington road.

I love Haringey as much as anyone does  , i moved here on the 19th august 1969. and have lived on several of the roads in the ward ,but to accuse Enfield officers of being stupid and carrying out unplanned work sounds like unhealthy propaganda .

It requires immense character and confidence to  concede as Liz has done., and  accept that there  is more than one way to skin a cat , LIz has i believe shown interest in making  the enfield end of whittington no entry no exit ,as it may  have the same desired  traffic calming effect in front of your home,  without running roughshod over the Residents of the remaining roads who are being forced to carry displaced traffic on behalf of  whittington road.

There would  be anarchy in  Bowes Park  if like me  you decided to perhaps move to the adjoining roads  ie whittington to say Nightingale road , would one    then also demand that Haringey  ramroad a no right turn to Bounds Green road ,and then work ones  way through the other roads,  Does one  genuinely believe that Drivers  waving  tools to  perhaps intimidate   one another in the rush hour(, is like the no right turn,at whittington  road ) ,a character trait i that  is  only exclusive to whittington road vehicle users ,

This type of behaviour is in keeping with the times , if one keeps  up the Enfield Borough bashing , apart  from Liz no one else will observe the one upmanship  has relocated theblue collar drivers waving tools and fumes away from the exclusive end   of Whittington Road  

Bye

Wow these traffic issues in the Haringey part of Bowes Park do sound incredibly complicated! In Alexandra ward and a bit of Bounds Green - the part bounded by Bounds Green and Durnsford roads - we have tried running a People's Assembly to get a discussion going in our neighbourhoods involving all sides to the traffic debate (we have lots of ratrunning in various of our roads), encouraging the exchange of facts and ideas, and trying to make sure that everyone is able to have their voice heard. It is generally agreed that it went well, and we had great facilitators who would be willing to help organise similar meetings in other neighbourhoods around here.

Haringey Bowes must be particularly impacted by the new Enfield LTN, and to have a discussion before Haringey propose doing something about it - or before they have worked out what to do about it - seems a good move. 

Perhaps such a meeting could be organised by the BPCA? Kate suggested this, and I see that she was on our list for the meeting that I mentioned - unfortunately there was a typo in the email address that we received for her, so she did not get further information about it.

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